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funlover22
VIP club member
Joined: 30 Mar 2005
Posts: 493
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 Posted: Fri Apr 08, 2005 10:30 pm Post subject: sex versus violence |
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The argument for allowing more sex and less violence into mainstream homes is age-old - two generations at least.
It was ignited by the Anti-war demonstrations in the 1960s. Messages like MAKE LOVE NOT WAR were burned into the psche of a generation of young men and women.
Today, it is the daughters of the '60s sex freedom fanatics that we cherish most. By my reckoning, today's < < CENSORED > > adults are a lot freer about their sexuality than their sex-happy parents.
Young women are more sexually uninhibited than ever, and those of who adore the female form in all its glory are reaping the benefits!
Ciao |
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Pikachu86
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Joined: 11 Apr 2005
Posts: 8
Location: Bluegrassfields of Kentucky
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| Posted: Tue Apr 12, 2005 5:00 am Post subject: Society??? |
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I still have such a hard time figuring out how such gruesome and violent pictures and videos can be shown on the internet w/out hardly anything being said about it. Yet pictures of Nude-Preteens is considered wrong and your labeled for life for viewing such dirty pictures?? How in the world did our society become so corrupted? When something that God created can become forbidden and yet Violence and Executions can be accessed anywhere. So I guess it does mean that it's acceptable to be able to watch evil things on the internet,TVand Newspapers. However yet the image of a Nude young female is considered unacceptable. I've also been told that whenever young models pose naked that they're being exploited and being forced against their will do pose for the pictures. Also in regards to an earlier comment on if someone masterbates in the privacy of their own home to an young model. Then that person is a labeled a pervert & a molester.. So that would mean that everyone that views executions & violence in movies & Tv that they're going to imitate what they see ?????????.. Where did society go wrong???  |
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shagrat
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Joined: 18 Apr 2005
Posts: 5
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| Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2005 8:08 am Post subject: |
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| Pikachu86 you are one sick person-pre teen girls are not to be looked at, or lusted after, I enjoy loking at young 'looking' women but you and those like you are the reasons why peadophile laws exist, they're there to protect the innocent from people like you-rot in hell you scum! |
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dennisa6
Good Poster
Joined: 09 Mar 2005
Posts: 77
Location: Central Ohio, USA
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| Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2005 6:53 pm Post subject: REPLY TO "SHAGRAT" |
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Just because men AND women may like to look at pictures of nude pree-teens does NOT make them weird, strange, or sick. There are many, many, mainstream books and videos legally available to the general public that features images of beautifull nude pree-teens. These include books by David Hamilton and Jock Sturges that are widely available at on-line stores like amazon.com and book stores like B DALTON and WALDENBOOKS. Infact, last year I purchessed the movie PRETTY BABY from amazon.com that featured a very pretty ELEVENN (11) YEAR OLD Brook Shields (Yes that's right SHAGRAT, 11 years old) totally nude in several scenes---and I must add that she was a very pretty girl.
You can also buy many legally mainstream nudist videos that feature people of ALL AGES totally nude from places like www.amazon.com and www.enature.net
Your post was very rough and ill thought out SHAGRAT. Just because a person admires the beauty of a nude pree-teens does not mean they LUST after her in a derogatory manner. And the Pedoo laws you talk about are for people who improperly touch or exploit the young girls. I think the really sick people in the world are the ones that refuse to accept that models can be beautifull and a pleasure to look at REGARDLESS OF AGE. And of course, I may add that we are NOT exploiting the girls by viewing legal nudist/artistic material that is legally available to the mainstream public featuring nude pree-teens.
KEY POINTS:
1. A person that views material like this, is not going to abuse them....just like a person that watches a violent show or bank robbery story is not going to commit that same crime!
2. Why not just appreciate the beauty of those girls and not condemn people for doing so! They are beautifull for such a short time in the span of eternity before their flesh rots away to ugliness. Lets celebrate and feast on their images of beauty before the maggots and buzzards feast on her body!
3. What God has created is beautifull! Regardless of Age of the person!
4. Ohhhhhhhhhhhhh, but it is just so acceptable to LUST after the body of a legal age female just because she was on this planet for 18 orbits around the sun. It is then okay to wish, hope, and pray you someday get to totally make out with this legal female, filling up every hole on her body, imagining every possible sexual position, etc. etc. and then you may get some major sexually transmitted disease, like AIDS or HERPES....or she may end up pregnant and will have to throw the baby in a dumpster or kill it, or give it away, or keep it but it will not have a loving father, etc. etc. YES, so I guess once the models turn the magical age of 18, you can just let your mental energy run wild---that is according to the laws and standards of scoiety.
WWWWhhhhhhheeeeeeeewwwwwww.......I think I will just stick to admiring young nude females as a beautifull creation of God and NOT, and I repeat NOT, and I repeat once again NOT, to LUST or even touch them in the wrong way!!!!
P.S. The censorship is really ridiculous at this board, I had to keep going back many times to intentionally misspell words to avoid the censor. |
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ciggy
Respected VIP club member
Joined: 16 Mar 2005
Posts: 739
Location: USA
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| Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2005 3:51 am Post subject: |
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I think the confusion and arguments about what age girls can be lusted after or have their beauty appreciated, comes from the disparity between the age at which girls actually attain sexual maturity (used to be around 15 and is now in the mid- to late-12th year), on the one hand, and the age society considers them "mentally mature" on the other (a much later age, usually 18 ).
I've heard women and pussy-whipped asshole men call men "ped0philes" for lusting after a girl of 17. That is, of course, patently ridiculous, but such is the way of a society that tries to make chi!dren of adults. Subconsciously, when men feel a natural attraction to women in the early stages of their womanhood (where breeding is also the healthiest so there's an evolutionary imperative there), namely in the 12 to 17 range, society wrongly and fallaciously calls them criminals for it, and often the men so accused will also accuse themselves that way, when looking in the mirror.
Now if a man considers his picture-viewing behavior to already be criminal and a thing of shame, in the age range where he's naturally attracted, it's not a big step from there to dip to the y0unger ages, prior to a girl's sexual maturity. Might as well go all the way, they say to themselves. In that sense, I think it's ridiculously high and arbitrary ages of adulthood set for girls which exacerbates the phenomenon of pedophilia, making it far more widespread than it otherwise would be.
I think what would be normal and healthy would be to appreciate the beauty of NON-NUDE photography of girls under 12, but I think it's unnatural to try to overly sexualize girls in that age range or to fantasize about doing sexual things to them while viewing such pics and videos. They are not yet sexually mature, so while their beauty is there and to be wondered at and so forth, the fantasized activity should involve the same hugs and kisses and healthy playful behavior that any normal male relative would shower upon a beautiful growing girl like that.
When a girl is in her 12th year, NATURE says she becomes a woman (average age of menarche). Ready or not, world of sexual maturity, here she comes. At that age, it ceases to be unnatural to notice the development of her secondary sex characteristics, the growing of her breasts, the widening of her hips, the womanly shape accumulating in her legs, and so forth. Fantasy about some gentle and loving and appreciative and near-worshipful sexual involvement with girls of that age range is perfectly natural, even though forbidden by a sick and psychotic SOCIETY which has deviated from nature. It seems morally right to me that girls in that age range should be lovingly introduced into the world of sexual maturity, with advice and mentoring and yes, even nude photography, rather than be told that they are still chi!dren and should continue to play with dolls and other unnaturally immature things for teenagers who have matured.
When girls of that age act slutty (and in the U.S. especially ones sees many of them that go down that path), it's a shout to a repressive society that it has wrongly tried to pidgeon-hole them into a baby-like role which they have outgrown. If SOCIETY weren't extreme in the way it treats them like chi!dren, then THEY wouldn't be so extreme in the way they try to act like mature women. Action leads to opposite reaction, you might say.
The human family needs to heal itself, regain a healthier relationship with nature, back away from dysfunctional and artificial restrictions, and in the process of doing that, a side-effect will be exponentially LESS harm being done to chi!dren and teenagers, and more loving, generous contact, healthier minds, and healthier behavior. |
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Pikachu86
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Joined: 11 Apr 2005
Posts: 8
Location: Bluegrassfields of Kentucky
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| Posted: Sat Apr 23, 2005 6:31 am Post subject: Support |
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I just wanted to say a Thank You for the comments and support from dennis & ciggy. In reference to my earlier post where is it written or a new law passed that condemns anyone from viewing young females??
(OH YEAH I Forgot SOCIETY TEACHES US SO) 
And in reference that dennis made that once the affore mentioned model turns the LEGAL AGE OF 18 then it's perfect natural to view them. & have all sick & perverted feelings towards them.
I also support & agree with ciggy's comments about how a 12 yr old girl who is entering adolescence that she is becoming a woman & that they should be introduced into sexual maturity in a kind loving way & not be treated like a < CENSORED > or leave it up to society to raise them.
& Ciggy you made another good point! that since society has taken the place of parenting & continues to treat young girls like babies then of course they're going to rebel.
I'm so upset over the ppl that criticize other ppl for their actions & words I just have to say that maybe those ppl need to take a long long in the mirror at themselves! |
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dennisa6
Good Poster
Joined: 09 Mar 2005
Posts: 77
Location: Central Ohio, USA
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| Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2005 7:08 am Post subject: New Signature Quote |
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I just edited my profile to include a signature quote, as listed below!
_________________
"Here today, gone tomorrow". |
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heyboy
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Joined: 08 Dec 2004
Posts: 16
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| Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2005 9:40 pm Post subject: I think there is a problem |
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What I think the problem is with porn that depicts you know what, is that I think c*ildren need to develop their sexuality at their own pace.
I think it's a very god idea to teach them about sex in an honest and unashamed way, but I would feel very uneasy about showing them pornographic images, talking to them in a sexual way, treating them in a sexual way, etc., because that influences their sexual development.
So I think the problem with c*ild porn is that it's very unlikely that the models woke up one morning and thought "I would love to take my clothes off and pose with my legs spread in front of a camera today."
it's more than likely that some adult just got them to pose like that. And that would have influenced their sexual development. It would mean that the c*ild was exposed to the world of sex when perhaps they weren't ready yet.
I have heard many victims of c*ild abuse say that even if they consented to sexual acts at the time, and enjoyed them, now they regret them because they think they weren't ready then. Like I said, I think that everyone needs to be allowed to find their sexuality in their own time.
I have heard of many cases of people growing up to be hugely disturbed because they were sexually abused. I once saw a program on TV about psychotic murderers. They interviewed them and almost all of them had been sexually abused as < < CENSORED > >. One of them told of how he had punched his best friend in the head repeatedly until all he could smell was brain because he was covered in it and it was all over the walls.
I know that's different to posing for photos in front of a pleasant man who treats you well, but I think this should serve as a warning of the dangers of messing with c*ildren's sexuality.
So if a < < CENSORED > > has never been influenced one way or the other, and they decide one day to do porn, then I think that's fine. But I think it's another thing to "force" it upon them, even if it's done in a loving and caring way.
_________________
"Nothing can be more contrary to religion and the clergy than reason and common sense."
-Francois Marie Arouet "Voltaire", French author and playwright |
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heyboy
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Joined: 08 Dec 2004
Posts: 16
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| Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2005 10:52 pm Post subject: Part 2 |
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So how do you make sure that porn models are ready to be sexualised like that? You'd have to set an age barrier that would make sure that even late developers would be ready. So maybe that's why the age limit for porn is 18.
Why set a definite aga rather than deciding on each individual case whether the model was sexually mature or not? Because that would be almost impossible to implement. How would anyone prove whether a model was ready or not?
C*ildren are very easily manipulated and their minds can be molded in any way. Paed0philes often expose < < CENSORED > > to sexual things in order to foce their sexuality to develop at an unnatural rate, so that they can consentually agree to sex. This is what can screw them up for life. But how can you prove that this did not happen with say a 1 2 year old porn model?
I think you can't. And that's one reason that the law says you have to be 18 to be in porn. The law has to be black and white even though real life isn't. Otherwise it would be impossible to implement.
There are a lot of other reasons why the law is like that. Some are probably not very logical, and I agree with much of what others have said on this forum, but generally, I think it's probably for the best that the law is like that.
Of course not EVERYONE over 18 is ready for sex or porn, but I think that it's a reasonable age at which to assume that most peoples' minds are developed and experienced enough to be placed in that situation.
So even if you're not doing any harm to anyone by looking at c*ild p0rn, maybe some of the c*ildren in it have been damaged for life. So maybe it's right for it to be illegal.
_________________
"Nothing can be more contrary to religion and the clergy than reason and common sense."
-Francois Marie Arouet "Voltaire", French author and playwright |
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ciggy
Respected VIP club member
Joined: 16 Mar 2005
Posts: 739
Location: USA
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| Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2005 1:12 am Post subject: |
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| Keep sucking up to the oppressors, HB. When Nature says you're an adult, an artificial number set by twisted people isn't going to change reality. |
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secretfrost1
I'm probably spamming
Joined: 10 Jan 2005
Posts: 3
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| Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2005 4:57 am Post subject: 9-11 vs./ teen videos |
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just to let you know. There is a web sight out there that has up to date listings of what is legal and what is not. It does country by country and if you live in the great U.S.A. it does state by state. Just to give you a hint of what it has,it lists the age both male and females are by age legal and by what age they are allowed to pose and have intercourse with not only themselves by masturbating, but by someone of the opposite birthright. But it doesn't stop there it also goes into incest for those moms, dads and brothers and sisters that have thought about it. just a foot note. IT IS STILL RAPE IF AT ANY TIME THEY SAY NO NO MATTER IF IT IS MALE OR FEMALE!
find the site and I promise you will get a kick out of it. |
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heyboy
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Joined: 08 Dec 2004
Posts: 16
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| Posted: Sat Apr 30, 2005 2:32 am Post subject: You didn't understand anything. Plese read it again. |
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Yeah that's right sucking up to the oppressors. You obviously didn't understand a single thing I said ciggy.
I never said that the law dictates at what age you reach sexual maturity. Don't you understand? Yes, I agree with you, when you're ready, you're ready, even if you're 10 years old. Maybe you were ready at that age and if you'd had sex or done porn when you were ten, you'd still be happy that you made the right decision. But is that the age that everybody's ready? Or maybe some people aren't ready until they're 13. Or 16, or 18. At what age is EVERYBODY ready?
So you'd have it so that there was no age limit and everybody from a 6 month old baby to a 15 year old could do porn, right?
So picture this: You're six years old and a friend of your dad's comes up to you one day and says "hey, you're a nice looking boy."
You think "cool".
Then he says "can I take some pictures of you?"
You think "why not?"
So he does. Then after a while, he says "I tell you what, why don't you take your clothes off?"
And you do, 'cause you think nothing of it 'cause you're only six and you've never even thought about sex.
So he takes some more pictures, and then he says "why don't you put one of your fingers in your ass?"
You think "That's weird, but okay."
Then he takes his clothes off. You're thinking it's a bit weird, but you don't know a lot about the world, so you go along with it.
Then he says "Hey. Do you know what it's like to have your penis in somebody's mouth?"
So he gives you a blow job while he masturbates.
And he puts all the pictures on the internet and charges people to see them.
At that age, you think nothing of it apart from it's a bit weird. But as you grow up you start to think "Hang on. I don't think I'm gay."
But you're confused because you enjoyed it. And (maybe this wouldn't happen to you, but I think it would to a lot of people) you start to feel quite weird about it. And you start to feel ashamed. And you know that those pictures are still there on the internet. And when you have your first girlfriend you feel weird and confused. You feel strange about being naked in front of someone. And those feelings get worse as you get older, and you start to realise that it really wasn't fair for this guy to do this to you before you'd even had a chance to work things out for yourself, or make an informed and intelligent decision as to whether you wanted pictures of you having sex to be flying around on the internet.
On the other hand, picture this: You're eighteen. You have a reasonable amount of experience in life. You're quite confident about your sexuality. You can deal with it. So you decide to make some money in porn. You're old enough to know what you're doing. No problem.
And I don't know how much experience you have with women but let me tell you that most women are really funny about sex. They take it really seriously. Personally, if an attractive woman had let me fuck her when I was 9, I think I would have loved it. And I don't think I'd regret it. But for most girls it's different. Something like that can fuck them up for life. Do you not understand that? This isn't something that "The Oppressors" have made up. It's a fact. I have heard of many people this has happened to.
What happens if you let a < < CENSORED > > do whatever he or she wants? They'll end up getting in all sorts of trouble, because they're not experienced enough in life, and they're not intelligent enough yet to see the consequences of what they're doing. I've seen < < CENSORED > > putting huge concrete slabs in front of a high speed train full of people. Yes these < < CENSORED > > knew what could happen. Yes, they knew it was wrong, but did it stop them? No!
Maybe you don't know what it's like to raise < < CENSORED > >, but I do. You have to teach them a lot. And even when they know they shouldn't do something like play with matches, they still do it. An adult wouldn't play with a blow torch, because they'd be sensible enough to stop themselves.
So Maybe < < CENSORED > > shouldn't be allowed to do some things, like play with fireworks or guns, get credit cards, buy a house, etc. Don't you see that they wouldn't know what they were doing? And the same goes for doing porn. Wait until they're ready to make an ADULT decision about it.
So maybe it's better if you let nature take its course at its own pace, and not force it on people. There you are saying that "When Nature says you're an adult, an artificial number set by twisted people isn't going to change reality." Yet you seem to be trying to set an artificial number yourself by assuming that everybody SHOULD be ready whenever it's convenient for you. In your world, a 9 year old would be responsible enough to decide whether they were happy to have anal sex or not, right? That's not the real world and in that world, there'd be a lot of confused, screwed-up people, like the man I described who punched his friend's brains out.
_________________
"Nothing can be more contrary to religion and the clergy than reason and common sense."
-Francois Marie Arouet "Voltaire", French author and playwright |
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ciggy
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Joined: 16 Mar 2005
Posts: 739
Location: USA
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| Posted: Sat Apr 30, 2005 3:42 pm Post subject: |
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Straw man fallacies are rather dull, HB. You're saying that I said things, which I never said.
What I did say is that there is an age for everyone when Nature manifests that you have reached sexual maturity. If it comes and society says you're not ready for it, that doesn't make you any less sexually mature. You purport that I said this happens at 9 years old, which is ridiculous. You invent lies about what I said, perhaps due to some mental disorder and personal issues surrounding something that might have happened to you in your own childhood, but really, I don't want any part of what torments you.
Had you bothered to read what I wrote before about this topic, you'd know that I stated that in older times the onset of sexual maturity in girls (and I'm not aware, nor do I care, when it happens on average for boys since they are not my preference--are they yours?) used to be 15. In more recent times the average age of menarche is lower, in the mid-to-late 12th year. That being an average, some will reach menarche earlier and some later, but when dealing with a population or a collective, it's best to target the average case for treatement by policy.
Policy can either be fact-based or fantasy-based. Current law is fantasy-based, but would be healthier, psychologically, if it were fact-based. |
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heyboy
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Joined: 08 Dec 2004
Posts: 16
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| Posted: Sun May 01, 2005 4:07 am Post subject: Okay |
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Okay, don't bother with the childish attempts at insults. I'm into having discussions with people. Not arguing. I gave a point of view and rather than just saying that you didn't agree, you started accusing me of "sucking up to the oppressors".
For one thing, I did read everything you said in the forum. Yes, I even read that report on menachre.
Secondly, I didn't say that you'd said the age for sexual maturity was 9. Read it again. I said: "...when you're ready, you're ready, even if you're 10 years old. Maybe you were ready at that age..." Notice where it says "maybe". It does not say "you said you were ready at 9". It is an example. Oh and I also wasn't accusing you of being gay so don't start with that either. And it's a bit immature to try to insult or embarrass me by implying that I might be gay. Keep that shit in the school yard. The reason I was comparing boys' development with girls', was because I think that as a man, you (or I) might see things a certain way, unless we understand that girls are different.
Apart from that, believe it or not, I have never been abused in any way, and I have no problems with my sexuality. The thing is, I can empathise with people, and I can imagine situations that might occur. And as much as you might want to talk about straw man fallacies, like I said, this stuff does happen regardless of what either you or I think. If you don't believe me, find out for yourself. It's good to keep your opinions balanced by taking in all sides of an argument.
And to show you what happens when someone actually takes in what you're saying and tries to learn from it rather than going mental and dishing out the insults, I think I'm starting to agree with you. Maybe the age limit should be lowered. But I still think you have to be careful about messing with peoples' sexual development.
Please read things properly and try and take them in before you start with the playground banter.
_________________
"Nothing can be more contrary to religion and the clergy than reason and common sense."
-Francois Marie Arouet "Voltaire", French author and playwright |
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ciggy
Respected VIP club member
Joined: 16 Mar 2005
Posts: 739
Location: USA
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| Posted: Sun May 01, 2005 6:22 am Post subject: |
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Messing with people's sexual development? Certainly not. If a person is sexually mature, there's no more sexual development to mess with.
There aren't additional ovaries to grow or a third breast. It's done. |
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